Category: Jam Session
When I've told some sighted people what I'm about to try and explain here, they seemed to think it has to do with blindness. I figure this is a place full of blind musicians and people who just love music, so I can test that theory here...
So when I listen to music (especially stuff like baroque, minimalism, and some genres of electronic weirdness for which I don't have names), I "see" shapes - curving lines criss-crossing one another, spirals, groups of horizontal lines in weird places in space, and/or combinations of these things and/or constructs which are too elaborate to describe. The more complex these abstract designs are, the more enjoyable. The same piece, when played again, evokes the same shape/s. Debussy's Claire De Lune is probably an easy example of a piece with lots of nice waves in it. Do any of you, especially those born blind and/or having perfect pitch, experience this? I used to think everyone did, so never spoke about it. Some things I've been studying recently have gotten me interested in perception, so I thought I'd ask.
this is a very interesting bored.
I create electronic music, as many people on here will tell you, under various names, but the more experimental stuff is reserved for feather boa. When I perform the stuff live or when i'm making it in my studio, i see shapes and patterns emerge from the sound, and when i'm listening to the more romantic classical stuff, or psychedelic folk especially, i see flowers and pastoral scenes etc etc. It might be coz i'm slitely autistic, i don't know, but i'll sertenly keep an eye on this board, sounds and how they are made facinate me.
It's certainly not a blind thing, but senses are not exclusive. Meaning sensory input is just that: input, whether it's through eyes, ears, touch. What your brain does with it is something else entirely.
Science has proven what I've thought for years, despite what a bunch of overweaning taxpayer-fed morons may have argued against when I was a kid: Vision at its core isn't so much the eyes, there's literally a vision processor. That's why those of us who've never seen still imagine things in 3 dimensions, still see, if you will, minus colors perhaps, basically visualize.
It's not a subjective thing, they've put electrodes on people and verified the centers being used are the same. So to me it makes complete sense that while you are listening to something, you're visualizing something, be it environment or geometric patterns. I haven't gotten the geometric patterns thing except when listening to industrial / noise forest / electronic stuff in that genre.
I think it's easier when you're younger, because the longer you live, the more memories get accumulated with music, so you hear a particular song or piece, or even genre, and you remember and visualize all the sights and sounds from a time when you heard it before. At least that's what I've found. For whatever reason, those memory-enhanced images tend to take priority, even if they're neutral: not talking the great times at a club, or laying out on a beach, just ... you worked somewhere and a particular song was played often.
I bet your dreams have sound tracks to them too.
Next time someone who can see disbelieves you or thinks it's because you're blind, ask them why certain sights make them want to be sick, or make them hungry, or imagine other things? Senses are just inputs, how your brain piddles around with it afterwards is another matter. Probably the psychology people on here have a better way of putting it.
Within my mind, energy, sound and motion are inseparable... I suppose that's why theremin appeals to me, because you could invent your own way to play it if you wanted, whereas that's hard to do with another instrument, if not downright impossible. and everything is about motion, all the time. so when I hear music, I see color and shapes, but sometimes, I see things moving too, in intricate waves or angles, curves or spikes, interlinking or separate. music is movement and shape to me, all the time--whehter it's physical, mental, or emotional, if you're in the right mind set--i.e. very emotional--music can be nearly a spiritual experience, but it's not one caused by some external source, that interpretation is yours alone. music is inextricably linked to the spirit, and any culture I can think of has used it that way. so whether to you, it is just shapes and color, or like me, you believe meaning can be built out of pure sound and motion alone, it can have a very profound effect on you.
It really depends on what I'm doing, but it's certainly not a talent only found in the blindness community. I have many sighted friends who have various conceptualizations of things they put together. Often, these immages take the form of whatever graphical representation the person uses for output.
I, like the others on here, have different immages in my head when creating different tracks and mixes. Trance and such can create any number of immages, as can ambient. For example, creating a seasonal soundscape is something I've done in the past, as is creating very dark and depressing ambient music. Romantic trance produces another set of immages of course, while something like tehcno/house music would be more of a graphical representation for me. I say all this to illistrate the point that while people do have this ability, like a musical experience being something that each one has differently, so too is the creation of such a thing.
Partly the intensity of my interpretation is because I do vice versa all the time: I look at something, even just a set of colors, and music starts to come in to being, one track at a time in my mind. I wish I had a synth or something, god. But yeah it's definitely not just a blind thing.
LeoGuardian, I was once told that my visual cortex was probably smooth from lack of use. Knowing what we know about vision now, this is of course total nonsense. And your mention of dreams with soundtracks reminds me of a dream I had a couple years ago where The buggles' Video Killed the Radio Star played as I revisited just about every old computer and piece of Brailling technology that was in use in my early school days. For you elder folk, don't laugh at me too much. *smile* From the 90s is what I mean by old technology.
Voyager, I think what you are describing might be synesthesia. Just for a start,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
I believe this is what I am experiencing. The description in the article which is most similar to mine is where a man sees music like colored lines of an oscilloscope. The main difference is that I can't see color. I'd be very interested to know whether or not this sort of thing is more commonly experienced among the blind than the sighted.
guys, listen to this, be interested to hear what you see if anything, one of the most magicall songs ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Ofasda7fw
Difficult to describe, but some of the lines are angled downward where the B flat is used instead of the natural; this can also cause a rounding effect depending on where it is relative to other notes played nearby. Atop a supporting structure, the song is meandering lines, some of which end in upward points. This is irrespective ot its lyrics or magical subject.
Do you see anything in this one? Just go to the link and use the links list to hit the first play link, and it should play "a quiet moment."
http://www.myspace.com/circleofears/music/songs/a-quiet-moment-by-unclejim-39132314
I also see images of lines or waves when I listen to music. The lines will softly undulate and move in ocean like drifts when I listen to certain types of music like classical addagios and such and I get spiky movement when I listen to rock or heavier music such as symphonic. I think the synesthesia topic is well taken. I do have some image of color at times too since I have color memory. As one who was fully sighted and now totally blind I can say that this synthesthesia never occured that I was aware of when I was sighted. I've only experienced it as a blind person.
Shine, I find it very interesting that you only noticed it after you went blind. And this is listening to some of the same music you heard as a sighted person?
Yes. I've always been a lover of music. I play piano and have since I was a child. Alot of the music I play or listen to now is the same as before.
synesthesia, yes, I found this out about 10 years ago. I don't do it with music, but more with letters, dates, numbers etc, I actually see letters as colors when I type, think of words etc.
I talked to a professor who's done a lot of research on this and it's uncommon for blind people to have it. not unhurd of just uncommon
In my case it's more pictures, images, like fields or grass. Or summer. Or it changes. I think mood also plays a part.
I don't see images, but every piece of music has color, some subtle, others intense, but the brightness or clarity has no impact on if I like the music or not. Some are just one color, but others are multi-colored.
To Juffling Jugs of Joy and others who see color with music or letters, I'm guessing you've had or currently have enough vision to perceive color. I may be wrong, but I would think that in order for your brain to assign the color blue to a certain piece of music, for example, you would have to have seen blue at some point.
Very interesting topic! Well, I am not a musician anymore, though I played the piano for quite a while when I was little. Lol. But I now just love listening to music. I am totally blind, except for some light perception. I have never experienced the synesthesia phenomenon...no shapes, colours or geometric patterns when listening to music. It's very interesting to me, though. I believe, through meditation, heightening our psychic senses, we can actually induce synesthesia in ourselves (those who don't already experience it, anyway). Lol. And those who do, can perfect and expand upon it.
This board topic is incredibly interesting. I had sight until age 11, and never noticed it before until I lost my sight. But ever since I've been totally blind, and mayby before, I can't remember, I've seen the different keys of music as vivid color. C, for example, is pink. D and G are varying shades of purple to me. I don't think I picture individual letters as being colored, but I do visualize some words, both spoken and read, as being colored. For example, my name Cala to me, looks like a light shade of blue. The word feather makes me see a dark purple. I picture these words written in print when I hear them, and those letters are colored.
Voices to me also make me visualize color sometimes, depending on their tone. I've always pictured my boyfriend's voice as a deep indigo/violet shade. It's almost like the color is a vail over an image of him... It's kind of hard to explain.
I don't know if this is a product of having had sight, or if it's unusual at all, but in areas I'm even moderately familliar with, even in a room I don't know that well, it's like I can see it, though of course I can't. When I'm walking around my college campus, I see the brick sidewalks changing into cement, I see the grass to either side, I see the trees and buildings. Some days, like if I'm tired or my eyes are hurting, I can't see as well, and it makes me feel disoriented. Has anyone ever experienced that? Like right now, I can "see" the keyboard, my fingers on them.. but I can't actually see it.
Finally, maybe this is just an oddity of my brain, visual images had vivid and startling impacts on me as a child. it's why I'm afraid of skulls now, because just hearing the word unexpectedly flashes the image of it behind my eyes, and it stops me dead in my tracks for a moment. When the sky looked very weird with storm clouds, colors other than blue, gray, black or white, I couldn't look at the sky, because it scared me. If anyone has ever played the Mario 64 nintindo game, several of the scenes in it frightened me, because to look at them was just scary for some reason.
I find this topic fascinating, and I'd like to hear other peoples' experiences with it.